Ok, thanks. That’s clear. Doesn’t matter what I think. I’m trying to understand what you think. So, to try and steelman your position: one is born as male sex or as female sex (leaving the complexity of intersex people aside for now) and it is impossible to transition from one to the other. Therefore, there is no need for “cis” because there is no such thing as trans-women or trans-men. They are the sex they were born as and may live their lives presenting as the other sex. Regardless, they do not belong to the other sex.

Did I get that right? Seems logical.

There is some debate about whether one can change sex, but it is not well supported by science.

So that addresses sex. What about gender? Female or women can refer to sex and can refer to gender. Implicitly, I’d like to steelman this to see if I understand correctly. Would you say that gender is meaningless? That these are social constructs and that abolishment of gender roles is best?

Hope I got that right.

By the way, apologies for using an offensive term. I did not know anyone would consider it offensive. But, I have now Googled it and learned that some people do, so I won’t use it here again. I noted from the Economist: “…avoid all slurs, including TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminist), which may have started as a descriptive term but is now used to try to silence a vast swathe of opinions on trans issues”.

I could not find anything about it being legally hate speech in the UK, but I will take your word for it. I live in Asia for decades now and we can be somewhat oblivious to the latest language conventions in the west. Here it seems to still be just descriptive. So, do I say instead that a person is a radical feminist who excludes “trans-women” from women's spaces to keep out of trouble in the UK? As I am sure you are aware, many women are not trans-exclusionary, so how does one make the distinction in a non-derogatory way?

Jayne, thanks very much for your time. It is not often that I get to have a direct conversation with someone with your views who has thought about the issue so deeply.

Get the Medium app

A button that says 'Download on the App Store', and if clicked it will lead you to the iOS App store
A button that says 'Get it on, Google Play', and if clicked it will lead you to the Google Play store